Beth

Kimber: Today, I'll be talking with host of the, so I got divorced podcast, Beth lease. Beth has a single divorced mama to a really cool six-year-old and abuse divorce as the gift, she didn't know she needed.

Today, we'll be talking about her journey and the lessons she's learned along the way. Beth, thanks so much for being on my podcast today.

Beth: Hey, Kimber. Thanks so much for having me.

Kimber: Can you tell us a little bit about you, who you are, what you do.

Beth: Sure. So I live in Pennsylvania with my son who is six and a half, and I ha I host a podcast called, so I got divorced, which is based on me getting divorced and. the journey that I've taken after I've gotten divorced. So divorce has been the gift that I, didn't know I needed in my life. And it's sort of this pivotal moment in my life where I got to really examine who I was as a person.

And then just figure that out and I'm still figuring it.

Kimber: I, I love the way you say it's the gift. If it it's the gift that you didn't know. You needed some, some of you who are listening may have already heard Beth, because I did post about, I was on Beth's podcast. I'm not divorced, but I was lucky enough to be on Beth podcast to talk about perfectionism, letting go of perfectionism.

And so hopefully some of you are already a little bit familiar with her podcast and if not, you should go check it out. There's some really good stuff on there, but, but let's dive, let's dive more into this idea of divorce. Is the gift that you never knew you needed? What do you mean by that?

Beth: Sure. So when you think about divorce, I normally have a negative connotation or at least I have had a negative connotation of divorce. Like it's ending a marriage. It's not this magical thing that happened. And so the thing that I really learned in divorce was that I had a lot of trauma. I had a lot of. Bad communication patterns. I didn't really know what a healthy relationship should look like. And I didn't even, I lost myself in that relationship. And so by the end of it, I truly didn't know like who I was anymore. I didn't know like what I liked, what I didn't like. I didn't know that like how to have feelings.

I remember being in a therapy session, I'm crying. Like actually crying. And my therapist said, so how are you feeling right now? And I said, I think I'm sad.

Kimber: No,

Beth: And she was like, yeah, I think so, too. Like you're crying. And so I, it had just been. Like my entire life of just not being able to recognize feelings just having like bad communication patterns and really not knowing who I was as a person.

And when I got divorced, I realized that , these things were happening and it's really given me a chance to figure that out. Like figure out my trauma, figure out who I am as a person, figure out. Like maybe the way I went into my marriage was not for like the best reasons.

Kimber: Talk to us a little bit about that. Why you, how talk to us about your relationship and maybe your life leading up to that relationship? What led to getting into this relationship in the first place?

Beth: Yeah. I think that one of the things that was a really. Impactful thing that like made, made me really want to get married, was seeing all of my friends, have their lives figure out and getting married. And that's what I wanted or that's what I thought I needed. Like I thought there was all this societal pressure.

I had gone to like a Christian college where by the time you graduate, you're supposed to have like the ring by spring, you're supposed to be engaged and you're supposed to. Just ride off into the sunset with your magical relationship and just things are gonna be perfect. And that's what I thought I needed to do was to get married.

And I think that now looking back on it, that I into a relationship was someone who really mirrored a lot of like my early child, like interactions with my, with my parents. And so this isn't to say, like my parents weren't loving and didn't have the best intentions, but I can see very clearly how they weren't aware of how their actions impacted me and how they aren't comfortable with emotions.

So of course, I got married to someone who wasn't comfortable with emotions. I don't know that I ever really had. like healthy relationships. And I think some par, some parts of my parents' relationship is healthy, but I think there are like really important things like working through conflict and just like being open to other ideas and ways of thinking that weren't really modeled to me.

And so like, I, this is how it plays out. Right. You, you. Have these early interactions with your caregivers and then you, if you don't resolve some of those things and know that they're happening, they get played out in your relationships. And that's what happened to me.

Kimber: Yeah. So knowing that you kind of came into a relationship under that pressure of ring by spring, and that's kind of what the expectation was for you to do with your life, knowing that you come from a background where. Expressing emotion or talking about that kind of thing wasn't modeled for you. How did you finally get to the point where you could even think about divorce or, or be okay with that and follow through on it?

Beth: Yeah, that's been a lot of my journey. Post divorce first was just separating myself from that relationship. So the divorce was huge. And my situation, I think, was a little bit unique in that my ex displayed a lot of narcissistic. Traits. And so I think like when you go through narcissistic abuse, you don't really understand like how damaging it is until you sort of step away from it and you might, hopefully you do realize it and then you can take steps to either live with it or leave.

And I chose to leave. So it was in leaving. I, I actually started doing therapy before I got divorced or even. Really thought about divorce, but it was really pivotal in helping me to see that the behaviors, behaviors that my ex were were exhibiting weren't like normal . And so having someone just be able to look at a situation and objectively say, yeah, this.

That's not okay. And yeah, of course you should be angry. You should be mad or, you know, whatever feelings I was trying to have, those feelings are very valid. So having a, a neutral third party basically validate my feelings and just help me heal from, from my relationship was super pivotal. And I think that was. One of the most helpful things for me, honestly. I had a great therapist. She ended up taking another job though. So it's been hard to fill her shoes. It's hard to find a really good therapist, but therapy was huge for me.

Kimber: therapy I'm shock. I'm not shocked. I shouldn't say that I'm shocked. I'm not, but I'm, I'm happy actually, that that's a theme that comes up in a lot of my podcast episodes is, is therapy because I think the, most of the people that I bring onto this podcast, I, I want them because of how authentic they are and how, how vulnerable they allow themselves to be.

And I think for a lot of people, Therapy is a huge part of that. Which is why I think it keeps coming up. So many people are like go to therapy. I went to therapy. It helped me so much, but it's hard for people to validate themselves enough. I think sometimes to even get to therapy. In the first place I watched a TikTok just yesterday, you know, wasting my time scrolling through TikTok , but there was a therapist, a sweet older therapist that had a little TikTok that said it's very, very rare in my practice that when someone comes in and they're negating their own feelings and kind of.

Invalidating themselves. It's very rare that they're right. Usually the feelings we have have a reason to be there almost. I mean, it's you, no one can really escape trauma childhood trauma or otherwise, but because it looks different for everybody, we tend to think like, oh, I haven't gone through a traumatic experience or I'm just being a baby or, you know, we come up with all these ways to negate our own feelings.

And so my question is a, did you do that? And B if you did, how do you get to therapy in the first place?

Beth: Yeah. for me, I was, I felt like I was crazy and. It was more like, I, I couldn't tolerate, like living with my ex anymore. Like, I, I couldn't, I didn't know how, like, I didn't know how I could continue living in that situation. And I think you're right. Like I had these very valid feelings and I needed validation from someone who could look at my life from an outside point of view and say, yes, like.

that makes complete sense. And I think at that time, some of my friends like recommended, oh, our mutual friend has gotten a lot of help from this therapist. Do you want me to get their number? So like they had very, like guiding ways of sort of helping me make that decision. I think. Like looking back on it.

Those friends were very, that was like a very strengths based way of approaching it. Like, it's my decision only I could make it so they could have told me whatever they wanted their opinions about the situation, but it probably wasn't gonna change my mind. And I needed to hear like someone who, who was neutral in this situation sort of validate me.

And Yeah. that was actually really helpful.

Kimber: Yeah. Yeah. So. Back to this idea of divorce being the gifts that you didn't know you needed. It definitely sounds like in your case, divorce was exactly what you needed, but for people who maybe aren't in such an unhealthy relationship, but who like you got into it for.

Reasons, probably a lot of us get married for maybe not the right reasons, but maybe our relationship is okay and it's working. Okay. And we don't need that personal growth tool of divorce, but we need some other way to explore our feelings and. And let go of this idea that we need to be perceived a certain way or, or, you know, how do people come to a similar place that you, that divorce got you without having to go through a divorce?

Any ideas on that?

Beth: Yeah, I mean, I will just say again, therapy is great. I think everyone should go to therapy regardless of whatever situation they're in, because everyone has something that they need to unpack. Whether or not you realize it. Something that I've been exploring a lot more is. Right. How did, how did I come to this place and what did I experience that I needed to heal from?

And I think a lot of that is like recognize what my feelings are and just being aware of it. So I think two things that are really helpful are mindfulness. So having a mindfulness practice and just becoming aware of like what's happening in your body, cuz our bodies are so smart and. Alerting us to what's happening.

And when you can recognize that?

you can really start to like dig a little bit deeper and figure out, okay, I'm hungry. , I'm, I'm annoyed by this thing, or it really gives you a lot of clues, but you have to like recognize it. And then another thing is just having like a, a feelings wheel, at least for me, super helpful, because I can.

Be aware of what emotion I'm, I I'm feeling something. And then like, here are all the words that describe feelings. Like, let me pinpoint it and explore that. Like, what is it I'm actually feeling? And like, is that true? Or like, is it actually something else? So just really getting in touch with naming it and feeling it, and then like figuring out where I need to go next.

Mm.

Kimber: As you were talking, it actually just reminded me of something I was writing about this morning, which is sometimes I get so caught up in achieving a goal or this idea of the way I want my life to be that I try to positive think my way out of my feelings. Which I don't think is always bad. I think your thoughts have a lot of power and, and that in a lot of ways we can choose and affect the emotions we're feeling, but sometimes , it's important to let yourself feel those feelings and to acknowledge them because they're trying to tell you something, they're not just there to.

Pull you off the path of your goal or ruin your life or whatever. And, and especially if you've got reoccurring feelings that keep coming up it's important to not just run away from them. I remember I had a friend in high school who told me she hated. Empty moments in her life. She liked to stay busy because if she didn't stay busy, then she had too much time to think and essentially to feel depressed about her life.

And I think that's a common thing that we all do. We fill our schedules, we go to the next thing and the next thing, and we, and then we set the next goal and achieve the next goal. And a lot of it is. Both chasing this feeling that we want thinking, well, maybe when I get this done, I'll feel happier. Like I'm worthy of love or a good person.

When really what we need is some space to see what's really going on. And I don't think a lot of us give ourselves that space. I think we're really scared of it.

Beth: I agree. And I think we're not taught how to do that. Right? Like I, no one. until recently has been talking about this type of thing. Like none of my friends, none like my parents didn't know how to just actually like sit with their feelings. And so I think it's just, it's something you have to be aware of and something that you just need to, to muddle through.

And if, if therapy worse than do therapy also

Kimber: So talk to us a little bit about your journey since getting divorced, the ups, the downs, like what has been freeing, what's been really hard about it. What what's been your path since getting divorced.

Beth: So. Yeah, I, so one of my big motivators in getting divorced.

was that I didn't want the relationship that I had to be the model for my son of a healthy relationship. And I knew that if I stayed, my son was going to grow up and get in a relationship like that. A future partner. And he was also going to see me not as a healthy and happy person. And so my son was a huge motivator in why I, I left. And so. It was not easy. Like divorce is not inherently easy. And especially when you have kids, it makes it like exponentially harder. I was lucky in that I did have my, my parents that I could stay with for a little while. And I had a huge support system with my friends.

So that was huge. I also. Was working. So I realized that, like I had a lot of really positive things going for me. Like I could, I had a job so I could support myself in that way. I had family that I could stay with and I had my friends, so I wasn't completely isolated. But one of the things that I really loved was that space from, from my ex and the energy that he typically brought to the relationship was very like dark and.

Like heavy. And I didn't, I didn't realize until after I left that, I was like, oh actually I, I do feel better. Like I don't have like, someone like brooding in the background, or like just having to make really simple decisions with, with a person that was gonna make it difficult. And so being able to make my own decisions just by myself has been huge.

And they've been. Exactly what I want. I, I'm not performing, I'm not making a decision because I'm factoring in someone else. And that might sound weird because I am an only child. So like I'm used to making decisions, but I think I've always made decisions because I was worried about how I was being perceived.

And I think. that's part of the reason why I stayed married as long as I did, because I didn't want anyone to be able to see say, well, did you try X, Y, and Z? Like I wanted to, to try as much as possible in order to like, give the marriage a chance and, you know, looking back on it now, I don't think, I think I would've been incredibly unhealthy and unhappy had I stayed in that relationship.

Right.

Kimber: Yeah, it, it really resonates with me when you say. You've got this freedom to make decisions without feeling like you. Performing, I imagine as an only child, that the pressure was actually higher because there was no other kids to de distract your parents from the choices you were making. So I imagine that's a lot of, a lot of pressure because like you're their one shot to be like the perfect kid to make all the right decisions.

And did you feel that pressure growing up. Has.

Beth: I think so. Yeah. because I think in some ways my parents viewed me and my actions as a reflection of them. So , you know, like I, I did have to behave in a certain way, like that was sort of expected and I think. Yeah, it's something I didn't really realize until recently I'm like, oh, that it's, it's hard.

Kimber: Yeah. Has your divorce has Macon has what's the correct grammar here has having made I can't talk today. Having made the decision to get divorced, has that given you more courage and freedom to not people please so much in other areas of your life, or is that something that you still really struggle with?

Beth: I think it's something that I still struggle with?

And it's something that I think I will always just be mindful about. Like the, these are things that I, that years of. Living in a certain way. So, I mean, I hope at one point it'll become easier and I hear that, You

know, as you just get older in general, you just don't care as much about what other people think.

So I'm, I'm really looking forward to that life experience, not having to like care

Kimber: know, I talk a lot. I talk a lot on this podcast. I mean the whole title, just be your bad self. Kind of lends itself to the idea, to not people please at all, but we people please for a reason, right? whether we're not comfortable with conflict we crave the approval of someone else. Sometimes people pleasing can make our lives easier.

As long as we don't feel like we're sacrificing who we are. To do that. And my guess is when it came to your marriage, that's what it came down to. Do you feel that way

Beth: Yeah, like I need

Kimber: at a core level to please someone else?

Beth: absolutely. Like it was. Like overwhelming to think of like, not being with this person, because it was like such a close tie to like those early like relationships with my parents. It was almost like me, like cutting off ties with like my parents at a very like childlike level. Which seemed so scary.

And like, like I said, like completely overwhelming. Like I couldn't imagine my life without this person until I, I needed like for my health, for my mental health and for my child, I needed to like step away.

Kimber: I I wanna talk Earlier, and then you just brought it up again, that if that it was largely because of your son that you left this marriage, because you didn't wanna model a relationship for him that you didn't want him to have. And I think that is so. Opposites of what we often hear in marriages, which is we'll stay together till the kids are grown up.

We'll stay together for the kids. So many people in marriages try to stay together for the kids. And I love this. I love this different narrative talk to us a little bit about that and then how, how you've been modeling. Life as a divorce person for him and maybe how that's better than, than what it was

Beth: Yeah, I think this goes back to like figuring out that I had a lot of things that I needed to heal from and part of what has been. Like so influential with the relationship with my son has been like conscious parenting and sort of viewing his feelings as very valid. So like the way that I, I look at my son is, and like respond to his emotions and just looking at him as not an extension of me. Has been really helpful in me trying to figure out where in my childhood, these things did not happen and where I need to have healing. So it's almost given me like parenting has given me insight on the person or the way that I needed to be parented as a child. So it's almost been this process of reparenting myself. In a way. So like, oh, the way that I would talk to my son or even a friend is, was not the way that I was talking to myself. So my inner critic was very harsh and like through mindfulness, I've been able to sort of hone back on that and just be very gentle with myself and be the parent that I needed when I was younger.

So that's been huge and it's, I think it's really changed the relationship.

that I've had with my son. And I don't, I don't think I would've had that level of connection and like understanding of him as a person if I had stayed in my marriage. And so,

Kimber: because you weren't allowing yourself the, the, that gift of healing.

Beth: I think that it would've been really hard to get my ex on board with that type of parenting, because I, I think it's probably very different than he was parented. And I think he just wasn't, wasn't going to be able to be like present and emotionally available for our son. So I think it, it wasn't gonna work.

And I think

probably on some level I knew it wasn't gonna work.

Kimber: that takes a lot of courage, this parenting parenting differently than you were parented because. I, I think, I think about, I, I got my degree in music education and I think a lot about this moment in an ed psych class, I took where she was talking about alternative forms of education other than public school.

So homeschool or even unschooling and. It's interesting because my professor had been a public school principal, but she was pretty much saying, just talking about how there's a lot of things in the public schools that are flawed. And I remember this girl raising her hand and saying, well, can't be that bad because we all, we, most of us went to public school and we all turned out just fine.

Beth: comes to

Kimber: And the professor. You don't have anything to compare that with. You don't know how you would've turned out in a different situation and when it comes to parenting, I think some of us have that mentality of,

Beth: So

Kimber: oh, I was parented this way. I turned out just fine. Therefore, this is the way I'm gonna parent my kids, or even we just don't know another way to parent.

And I find with myself and I'm, I'm curious if you feel the same way. Sometimes when I try to be more present and understanding of my kids. It's really hard because I think am I not being strict enough with them? Am I not? I'm parenting differently than I was in this situation. Are they gonna turn out to be spoiled or whatever, because I'm being understanding of them cuz that wasn't modeled for me.

And I don't know what to expect from that. Do you ever feel that way?

Beth: All the time. Cause I am like, well, I want you to like pick up your stuff like right now and it's a, it it's hard cuz I'm like, well, yeah. Is he gonna grow up and be like unmotivated and not be able to get a job because he just wants to watch TV. Like so Yeah, it is a really hard balance, but also we know what we're comparing it to.

Right. Like for me, it's me comparing it to my childhood and like my marriage and divorce. So that's. What I have is like, the comparison is like, I don't want him to be in his thirties and go through this, you know, traumatic relationship and, and still have a lot of things to figure out like ch I mean, he might still be in his thirties and, and be figuring stuff out.

I'm not saying that I'm perfect, but I'm hoping on like a very baseline level that like, He'll be able to identify his feelings and, and know that like I'm his safe person. And I think those are really huge as like being a little kid

Kimber: Yeah, I think that most kids obviously don't have a statistic to back this, but. Just from the way I was raised and other people raised. And I would say I had pretty healthy model of parenting for the generation I was raised in, but I think that it was the norm and still is the norm that kids feelings aren't as valid as adult feelings and what adults want is more important than what kids want.

And when that's what we model for our kids. That's what they learn like you did in your own relationships. That's when you become people, pleaser, you invalidate your own feelings, you push them down because that's what we were taught as kids. And it, it's not that you get to be an adult and all of a sudden a switch flips and you're like, oh, I'm an adult.

So now my feelings are valid. The only way that switch flips, I think is if you have kids of your own and you think, well, my feelings are more valid than theirs. and you just continue this cycle. But so much more healthy. To be, to be able to talk things out with your kids and listen to their feelings.

And it's harder, it takes a lot more time sometimes I'm just like, and, and you know what kids. Oftentimes have good reasoning. That's the hardest thing for me as a parent is sometimes I just want something to get done. And I would love to be able to say, because I'm your mom. And I said so, but there's a large part of me that, that like goes against everything who I am.

I, I'm not a parent that will say because I said, so. And that's a pain in the neck when you're raising kids to not be able to say that , it takes so much time. It takes so much thought. You have to really question your own ways of being raised and your own ways of handling things. And it's a lot. Yeah.

Parenting is way more complicated when you're being a present parent and you realize, and you have to acknowledge how little, you know, and how much, how much. You're just winging it and hope that your kid will turn out. Okay. But I think it's, I hope, I hope it's a good way to go. I hope that it turns our kids into critical thinkers and feelers and people who can communicate better and have better boundaries.

Even though it sucks to be the person that they're practicing those on

Beth: I agree. It just feels better too, right? It just feels so much more respectful. and that is not a perspective that I had before I had kids. I wa I was so judgemental, like, oh my gosh, I'm never gonna let my kid do X, Y, and Z. And I will never. Be that type of parent, but here I am like being very aware of his emotions and like talking to him in like a respectful way.

Even if he is not doing what I want him to do. So it's like this whole practice of self-reflection and awareness and being open to this like little person.

Kimber: Yeah. Yeah. And when you say you said something about even when he's not being, being respectful of his feelings, even when he's not doing what I want him to do.

Beth: Mm.

Kimber: And I think that's the paradigm shift that I used to think that parenting was about getting your kid to do what you wanted them to do. And the reason I thought that is because until I was an adult, I thought adults knew everything.

Beth: Mm.

Kimber: So if they wanted, and this is what I think this is what we're taught as kids. If a parent tells you to do think something, if a parent wants you to do something, they want you to do it because it's in your best interest and they know everything and they know better than you. Therefore you do what the parent says as an adult.

I realize I, I don't know everything. Sometimes I want something to be done because it's convenient for me. Not necessarily because it's good for my child. And so parenting, my paradigm of parenting has shifted from this parenting is about getting my kids to obey me and to do what I want them to do and know my job as a parent is to teach them to, to be a good human and to communicate And I'm, I'm glad to hear more and more people doing this, cuz I think, I think we need more models.

I don't think most people had a model of this growing.

Beth: Yeah, I agree. One thing that I was actually just talking with a friend last night. That my son is in Cub Scouts. And one of their like Cub scout laws is to be this laundry list of, of things, including like obedient, courteous, helpful and like trustworthy and they're all admirable things. But I was saying to my friend that like, I don't think I agree with all of them.

Like they don't align. Right. My parenting style. Like, I don't want someone, I don't want 'em to be obedient just because like I, or like let's at least explain why or like have some reasoning, not just because I said so. And I mean, I think that it does create like critical thinkers and, you know, people that go against the grain and are able to speak up

and just advocate for themselves. So it's hard because yeah, you're right. The rest of the world is not on the same page that we're on. So it's really hard.

Kimber: that obedience. First law in heaven. And I was told stories about I remember one story in particular about these girls that were playing in the field, or maybe it was just one girl playing in this field and her dad said run. And I remember my dad telling me she didn't ask why she didn't argue. She just.

Ran because she was an obedient kid. And then when she finally got to her dad, she looked back and there was a brush fire that had come through this field. And if she wouldn't have just obeyed immediately, she would've died. like, this is the kind of, this is the kind of story that I was told. Like you have to obey or you will die.

Like, and again, this idea that parents always know best. So there's no reason to argue. And And I, and it's, it's tricky, like you said, because sometimes it, it is nice to not be argued with. And I don't know, maybe if I told my kid to run in the brush fire, they would die because I don't teach obedience as the be all end all.

So it is interesting to think about, so the, this laundry list of values and how there's, there's a lot of good traits and a lot of good values in the world, but you kind of have to sift through what's important to you value wise, and why? Because not all values align with each other.

Beth: Mm-hmm

Kimber: And obedience is one of those

Beth: I think that comes back to like, I would not have had this awareness, had I not been doing this work and like, that sort of leads into like the, the divorce. Like, I, I wouldn't have come to this conclusion about, oh, some of these things that they have to say, every meeting don't really align with my values.

Had I not already been doing the work. I, I mean, I have that ability to say to my son, like, I don't know if we're gonna keep doing this. You know, I, I don't think it's a, a huge deal at this point. Like, they're still pretty like little and they just mostly run around at Cub Scouts. Like it's, it's not it's not as serious, but I think that if I hadn't had this sort of awareness, I, I wouldn.

Feel empowered to really think about it like that. And I wouldn't feel empowered to maybe not have him do Cub Scouts.

Kimber: Yeah.

Beth: Yeah.

Kimber: Yeah. I feel the same way about public school. Sometimes.

Beth: Mm-hmm oh, I saw meme the other day.

Kimber: go ahead.

Beth: That was like teacher or no kids who. We're such a pleasure to have in class are now like having so much anxiety and that's something that my son's teacher has said about him is being like, he's such a pleasure to have in class. And like he does, I don't know, I guess, follow the classroom rules, I think, because he doesn't realize that he can not follow them.

But that's like part of the reason why it's so important for me to not ha be as rigid at home and because he he's go, he's gonna experience all of the things that I don't want him to experience outside of the house. Like literally stepping outside of like the place that we live. He's gonna be bombarded with it.

And so that's like another reason why it's just so important for me to be really like present and available And, and help him navigate his feelings. Cause he is not gonna get that at public school and he is not gonna get it with some of my family members. Like he's just not

Kimber: And, and not every place is the place for that. Like I was, I, I did teach at, at a public school. I was a music teacher and you better believe I liked the kids that were obedient and listened and , weren't the little rebels in class. Right. You can't run, we need systems and you can't run an effective system.

If everyone's a little anarchist in. Thinker all the time about everything. And so I think that's really good that he's getting different exposure to different things and learning that independent thinking, but that sometimes it's more effective for him should be part of the system. You, you won't be able to hold a job.

If that's what he wants to do, you know, he could be an entrepreneur, I guess, but if he wants to hold a job, you've gotta learn to be part of the system. And, and that's one of the most valuable things I think public school teaches is how to jump through hoops because jumping through hoops is something you have to do to survive and be part of a, a community.

Beth: Yeah. Oh yeah. That is a great point. Cuz I right. I don't want him to be like causing problems. I actually like want him to learn and I don't think he can be learning if he's like. Disrupting other people and himself. So Yeah. I think that's such a great point and I think they do do a good job of motivating them to, you know, get their schoolwork done.

Kimber: Yeah. Parenting childhood, so many tricky things.

Beth: I know. we could probably talk about this for a long time.

Kimber: I know. Well, if you had a big takeaway or two that you wanna leave the listeners with from this discussion today, what would they be? Or what would it be?

Beth: Yeah, again, I think therapy is so huge and so crucial. I think the tricky part though, is finding a therapist who can be really helpful for you and is knowledgeable about the things that you need to. you wanna work on. And the other thing is just if you're divorced or thinking about divorce, that it can be?

really great.

Kimber: Mm. Okay.

Beth: And like I said, I didn't know that I needed a divorce to figure out so much of my trauma and to really be more of a healthy person and to have this healthy relationship, even with my son. but it was the byproduct of my divorce. .

Kimber: If people wanna find you, whether they're thinking about divorce or have been through a divorce, or just think you're a cool person like I do, and wanna listen to your podcast what are the best ways for people to find you.

Beth: Yeah, I'm on Instagram at, so I got divorced. My podcast is also called, so I got divorced and I do have a TikTok account that's called, so I got divorced. I haven't been as active on TikTok. And then if. Do you wanna email me my email address is so I got divorced@gmail.com.